Speeddemon651

Opinion poll: Direct vs Electric vs No starter

11 posts in this topic

I'm curious how significant the weight savings is to run no starter and just to hand prop ?

Are many people running the original direct drive starters, is there any advantage to do so over hand proping?

Is there any advantages to run an E-80 or Y-150 electric starter other than the obvious? Is it worth the weight having the ability to crank while in flight ?

 

 

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I am going through this exact process at the present time.  I currently have a manual crank starter on my Al Ball R-55 and it works great.  Not a lot of effort and she usually fires on the first pull.  Weight of the hand crank starter and crank handle is approximately 16 pounds.  The Y-150 electric starter with adapter is approximately 26 pounds.  Add an Odessy battery, wires and control circuit, around another 10 pounds.  Most of us either mount a radio and transponder or carry a hand held.  Probably a couple of pounds difference between the two options.  I estimate adding the electric starter will add approximately 20 pounds.  This includes removing the hand crank starter and the lead balance weight mounted in the tail by putting the battery and relay aft beneath the baggage compartment.  That said, any weight added to the Ryan will decrease performance.  If you run hot, high or both, the weight will be noticeable on your takeoff and cruise performance.  I have not flown a Ryan without a starter so someone else will have to describe the performance penalty.  I have hand propped the Ryan many times but that is no longer an option for me.  We lost a friend last year due to a hand propping accident.  No one knows what happened as Ted was by himself, but he had been propping aircraft for over 50 years, including the AT-11 that I flew for him.  The Admiral has decreed that the Ryan and Cub will have electric starters.  As I get older and my skydiving hips protest, I have come to the conclusion that this is probably a good idea.  Anyone have an idea where you "clock" the Y-150 to clear the oil tank and hoses?

Ron

 

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Ron, thanks for the response. I think a standard E-80 starter weighs around 25-28 lbs. You don't know anyone who has a spare direct drive starter / mount do you ?

I have a manual crank and crank mount but are missing the rest of the assembly.

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I think Jim McDaniel's might have one.  Mine is still on the aircraft until I get everything ready to do the swap for electric.  Still looking for a reputable outfit to overhaul the Y-150 assembly.  Anyone know of a shop?

Ron

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I spoke with Brad Ball and he basically said the direct drive starters are junk. Sounds like electric is the way to go and if you don't mind hand propping, a starter block off plate would save quite a bit of weight too.

Looking at my weight and balance sheet:

                Battery - 20.5 lbs

     Electric starter - 18.5 lbs

Cables/switch/box - 4.0 lbs

          Battery box - 1.5

        King KX 155 - 4.75 

                   Total - 49.25 lbs

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Numbers look about right except the TCDS that I have list the electric starter at 23 pounds and the required adapter at another 3.  The Odessy battery I am talking to my DER about is an AGM and weighs 9 pounds.  No battery box required but battery hold downs are.  Brads father overhauled my direct drive starter and I have never had a moments trouble with it.  Brad has seen a lot more of them than I, so his opinion must carry a lot of weight.  How much, if any weight is mounted in the tail of you aircraft?

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I do have a couple of direct drive starters and the crank support mechanism, and am willing to sell them. That said, I converted two planes to electric drive if for no other reason the safety issue. If you're going to hand prop you always take the risk of injury. If you insist on hand propping then first you should check the mag switch internally. As we found on our plane a carbon arc can develop between the switches internal contacts and fire the engine as you position the prop, even when you think the mags are off.

Jim McDaniel

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On 20.7.2016 at 5:32 PM, N441V said:

I am going through this exact process at the present time.  I currently have a manual crank starter on my Al Ball R-55 and it works great.  Not a lot of effort and she usually fires on the first pull.  Weight of the hand crank starter and crank handle is approximately 16 pounds.  The Y-150 electric starter with adapter is approximately 26 pounds.  Add an Odessy battery, wires and control circuit, around another 10 pounds.  Most of us either mount a radio and transponder or carry a hand held.  Probably a couple of pounds difference between the two options.  I estimate adding the electric starter will add approximately 20 pounds.  This includes removing the hand crank starter and the lead balance weight mounted in the tail by putting the battery and relay aft beneath the baggage compartment.  That said, any weight added to the Ryan will decrease performance.  If you run hot, high or both, the weight will be noticeable on your takeoff and cruise performance.  I have not flown a Ryan without a starter so someone else will have to describe the performance penalty.  I have hand propped the Ryan many times but that is no longer an option for me.  We lost a friend last year due to a hand propping accident.  No one knows what happened as Ted was by himself, but he had been propping aircraft for over 50 years, including the AT-11 that I flew for him.  The Admiral has decreed that the Ryan and Cub will have electric starters.  As I get older and my skydiving hips protest, I have come to the conclusion that this is probably a good idea.  Anyone have an idea where you "clock" the Y-150 to clear the oil tank and hoses?

Ron

 

Hi Ron,

I have an Y-150 on mine and pointed it a bit upwards from horizontal. If I remember it correct Brad pointed out that this would keep the oil away from the motor windings. Works fine for me. Just dont forget the oil restrictor on the starter adapter.

Didi

Y-150 Install.jpg

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Didi, thanks for the info!  

Ron

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See also the pic in Aircraft related/Electric starter

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