danmooney Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Could anyone tell me thier opinion of the Cleveland brake conversion? I am about half way through my restoration and would like to know if it is worth it. Also does anyone have the mod info? Thank You Dan Mooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N48748 Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Dan, SN 1683 had Cleveland brakes when I bought it, so I haven't any experience with the old Shinn system and cannot comment on the "is it worth it" question. I can tell you that the system wasn't very good when I got it, but only due to "mixing" of the old and new components. The brake system had apparently been serviced with Mil-5606 fluid - as to be expected with the Clevelands. However, since the old Shinn master cylinders are retained - and the seals within prefer automotive fluid - the system fluid was pretty nasty, the master cylinder piston seals were shot, and and there was significant corrosion and pitting in the master cylinder barrels which caused a lot of brake dragging. I managed to polish the cylinders without going significantly over-size, and since the piston assemblies I had were the "new" O-ring type (vs. cup seals), I was able to replace the seals with Mil-5606 compliant O-rings. After flushing the system and a week of bleeding, the brakes were absolutely perfect. Having trouble attaching file to this message, so will try to send you separate message with the 337 from 1981, in case that might help. By the way, unfortunate news regards my aircraft and her stupid pilot. While hopping rides during Memorial day weekend, I managed to leave the oil shutoff valve closed between flights (lots of people yakking during preflight is my only weak excuse). Lost oil pressure within 5 minutes, but landing OK with no airframe damage. However, my 15 hour TSMOH Kinner is now seized. Good news is since wings are off I will strip, clean, repair and recover all surfaces (last recover was 1981, and flaps, ailerons, v. fin and h. stabs are still Irish linen...) - so she should be in great shape and maybe will forgive me by the time I can get the engine back to Al Ball for repairs. Best Regards, Bob Roth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnehus Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Can you please forward me a copy of the 337 form for the breaks as well. I hope to have "approved" 337 copies of these field repairs on file through this site for ease of duplication on these mods. Thanks chris nehus cnehus@verizon.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danmooney Posted June 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Dan,SN 1683 had Cleveland brakes when I bought it, so I haven't any experience with the old Shinn system and cannot comment on the "is it worth it" question. I can tell you that the system wasn't very good when I got it, but only due to "mixing" of the old and new components. The brake system had apparently been serviced with Mil-5606 fluid - as to be expected with the Clevelands. However, since the old Shinn master cylinders are retained - and the seals within prefer automotive fluid - the system fluid was pretty nasty, the master cylinder piston seals were shot, and and there was significant corrosion and pitting in the master cylinder barrels which caused a lot of brake dragging. I managed to polish the cylinders without going significantly over-size, and since the piston assemblies I had were the "new" O-ring type (vs. cup seals), I was able to replace the seals with Mil-5606 compliant O-rings. After flushing the system and a week of bleeding, the brakes were absolutely perfect. Having trouble attaching file to this message, so will try to send you separate message with the 337 from 1981, in case that might help. By the way, unfortunate news regards my aircraft and her stupid pilot. While hopping rides during Memorial day weekend, I managed to leave the oil shutoff valve closed between flights (lots of people yakking during preflight is my only weak excuse). Lost oil pressure within 5 minutes, but landing OK with no airframe damage. However, my 15 hour TSMOH Kinner is now seized. Good news is since wings are off I will strip, clean, repair and recover all surfaces (last recover was 1981, and flaps, ailerons, v. fin and h. stabs are still Irish linen...) - so she should be in great shape and maybe will forgive me by the time I can get the engine back to Al Ball for repairs. Best Regards, Bob Roth Bob Sorry to hear about your engine. What type of shut off valve are you using I want to put one on my plane? The PT-22 I used to have had the original Shinns and they were OK. I had a local brake and clutch shop make me some new linings and lightly turn the drums they worked pretty good. I just thought if I could find a reasonably priced used set of Cleveland it might be worth doing it now while I am doing everything else. Thanks Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennethchapman Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Shinn Wheel & Brake parts SkyBound, Atlanta Georgia Shinn Wheels, brakes, cables, backing plates. Jim Greene (owner) 770-446-6797 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N48748 Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Dan,SN 1683 had Cleveland brakes when I bought it, so I haven't any experience with the old Shinn system and cannot comment on the "is it worth it" question. I can tell you that the system wasn't very good when I got it, but only due to "mixing" of the old and new components. The brake system had apparently been serviced with Mil-5606 fluid - as to be expected with the Clevelands. However, since the old Shinn master cylinders are retained - and the seals within prefer automotive fluid - the system fluid was pretty nasty, the master cylinder piston seals were shot, and and there was significant corrosion and pitting in the master cylinder barrels which caused a lot of brake dragging. I managed to polish the cylinders without going significantly over-size, and since the piston assemblies I had were the "new" O-ring type (vs. cup seals), I was able to replace the seals with Mil-5606 compliant O-rings. After flushing the system and a week of bleeding, the brakes were absolutely perfect. Having trouble attaching file to this message, so will try to send you separate message with the 337 from 1981, in case that might help. By the way, unfortunate news regards my aircraft and her stupid pilot. While hopping rides during Memorial day weekend, I managed to leave the oil shutoff valve closed between flights (lots of people yakking during preflight is my only weak excuse). Lost oil pressure within 5 minutes, but landing OK with no airframe damage. However, my 15 hour TSMOH Kinner is now seized. Good news is since wings are off I will strip, clean, repair and recover all surfaces (last recover was 1981, and flaps, ailerons, v. fin and h. stabs are still Irish linen...) - so she should be in great shape and maybe will forgive me by the time I can get the engine back to Al Ball for repairs. Best Regards, Bob Roth Bob Sorry to hear about your engine. What type of shut off valve are you using I want to put one on my plane? The PT-22 I used to have had the original Shinns and they were OK. I had a local brake and clutch shop make me some new linings and lightly turn the drums they worked pretty good. I just thought if I could find a reasonably priced used set of Cleveland it might be worth doing it now while I am doing everything else. Thanks Dan Dan, My aircraft just has a standard in-line ball type valve installed immediately below the oil tank. No control or indication from the cockpit. Al Ball and others have recommended a Bowden cable running to the cockpit, but I haven't seen any such installation yet. Probably a good idea. Will for sure fabricate something more "pilot proof". Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnehus Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 An easy way to make this fool proof is add a ground circuit between the oil shut off valve handle and left hand magneto. If the oil valve is off it should take the left hand mag to ground and you will have a long time to think about it while you are hand proping as it will not start. When valve is on, the ground to the mag is removed and only your mag switch will now supply a ground while in the off position. Nothing fancy....no lights....no power....no cables. Just a single ground wire and micro switch makes you safe. Remember if the mag "P" lead is grounded you have shut off the magneto, no left hand mag, no engine start as this is the starting (Impulsed) magneto. If you happen to get her started on just the right hand mag (if you select both during start) some way you have a second chance to chatch something is wrong during your mag check as you will have no left mag. Some of us only start on left mag and select both after start. If this circuit should somehow fail in flight and ground your left mag the right is not affected. It is just a simple circuit to the left hand mag with two switches, both must be open to remove the ground and allow the mag to fire. If you need help let me know. Chris Nehus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N48748 Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 An easy way to make this fool proof is add a ground circuit between the oil shut off valve handle and left hand magneto. If the oil valve is off it should take the left hand mag to ground and you will have a long time to think about it while you are hand proping as it will not start. When valve is on, the ground to the mag is removed and only your mag switch will now supply a ground while in the off position. Nothing fancy....no lights....no power....no cables. Just a single ground wire and micro switch makes you safe. Remember if the mag "P" lead is grounded you have shut off the magneto, no left hand mag, no engine start as this is the starting (Impulsed) magneto. If you happen to get her started on just the right hand mag (if you select both during start) some way you have a second chance to chatch something is wrong during your mag check as you will have no left mag. Some of us only start on left mag and select both after start. If this circuit should somehow fail in flight and ground your left mag the right is not affected. It is just a simple circuit to the left hand mag with two switches, both must be open to remove the ground and allow the mag to fire. If you need help let me know. Chris Nehus Chris, Thanks Chris - that's a great fool-proofing idea, I think I will pursue something along those lines when I get her back together again. Didn't really like the idea of running a cable to the rear cockpit. By the way; did you receive the Cleveland 337? Sent it via e-mail last week, but not sure it went through as scanned document was large. Best Regards, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnehus Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 An easy way to make this fool proof is add a ground circuit between the oil shut off valve handle and left hand magneto. If the oil valve is off it should take the left hand mag to ground and you will have a long time to think about it while you are hand proping as it will not start. When valve is on, the ground to the mag is removed and only your mag switch will now supply a ground while in the off position. Nothing fancy....no lights....no power....no cables. Just a single ground wire and micro switch makes you safe. Remember if the mag "P" lead is grounded you have shut off the magneto, no left hand mag, no engine start as this is the starting (Impulsed) magneto. If you happen to get her started on just the right hand mag (if you select both during start) some way you have a second chance to chatch something is wrong during your mag check as you will have no left mag. Some of us only start on left mag and select both after start. If this circuit should somehow fail in flight and ground your left mag the right is not affected. It is just a simple circuit to the left hand mag with two switches, both must be open to remove the ground and allow the mag to fire. If you need help let me know. Chris Nehus Chris, Thanks Chris - that's a great fool-proofing idea, I think I will pursue something along those lines when I get her back together again. Didn't really like the idea of running a cable to the rear cockpit. By the way; did you receive the Cleveland 337? Sent it via e-mail last week, but not sure it went through as scanned document was large. Best Regards, Bob Yes I did...THANKS! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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